Upskilling in the future of work is defined as improving current employees’ skill sets, usually through training, so they can advance in their jobs, find different roles and opportunities within the company and ultimately bring value to the whole organization.
This Center for the Transformation of Work meet-up is led by NASA’s Steve Rader, as he dives in with Hardskills Co-founder Shoba Purushothaman and Underpinned CEO Albert Azis-Clauson lead a discussion about life-long-learning and upskilling.
00:06:53 Mark Hannant: Greetings all from Mumbai
00:07:14 Barry Matthews: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/how-the-future-works/id1535557893
00:11:27 CTW: Hi Gavin!
00:16:23 Todd Brous: DJ!!!
00:17:48 ashley beaudoin: @John Hurter, would love to chat further, maybe we can help each other. Put your LinkedIn Profile link in the chat?
00:18:06 CTW: New attendees, please drop your contact info into the chat!
00:18:59 Todd Brous: DJ!!!!!
00:19:14 Philip Rogiers: Philip Rogiers. Philip.email@example.com
00:19:20 Atharv Tendolkar: Hi Everyone, this is Atharv here (firstname.lastname@example.org)
00:19:24 John Hurter: Thanks! You too.https://www.fte.network/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-hurter-a3a0502/
00:19:33 Mafé Rabino: Welcome to CTW DJ!!!
00:21:19 Barry Matthews: Love “liquid work” as a term
00:22:04 Philip Rogiers: https://journals.aom.org/doi/abs/10.5465/amd.2019.0093
00:22:21 Balaji Bondili: Accenture started using liquid workforce as a term 5-6 years back, but haven’t seen more of it.
00:23:48 DJ Ursal: Would like to take this opportunity to point out some of the cool stuff and demos that i have had an opportunity in the past to bring to market – from ideation to product.
1 NASA Grand Challenge Hackathon – Solution – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4YhJhx1x_I
2. Forbes Article on NASA solution – https://www.forbes.com/sites/oracle/2015/07/24/bringing-asteroids-down-to-earth/#580343d76007
00:24:27 Brandon Dwight: For newbies, John Winsor is writing a book with WORK. with Shoba Purushothaman, Co-founder of Hardskills: https://open-assembly.com/podcast/work/work-with-shoba-purushothaman-co-founder-of-hardskills
00:24:47 Todd Brous: Ladies and Gentlemen… Steve Rader!
00:25:02 Brandon Dwight: Steve Rader: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steve-rader-92b7754/
00:25:45 Cris Buningh: I watched the WORK podcast with Hardskills 👍
00:25:47 Gavin McClafferty: Coursera – Where we are now: 85 million jobs to be replaced by automation by 2025. 40% of core skills anticipated to change for workers. 69% of companies globally reporting shortages of talent. 149 million new technology-oriented jobs expected by 2025.
00:26:25 Brandon Dwight: Link to Coursera: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/gavin-mcclafferty-3146b43a_the-job-skills-of-2022-coursera-activity-6894637782615359488-Optc
00:28:10 Brandon Dwight: Shoba Purushothaman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shobapurushothaman/
00:28:24 Brandon Dwight: Hardskills: https://www.hardskills.com/
00:28:42 Carrie Leonard: @Steve, I’m surprised as well! 60% of time learning and another 75% of time on biz dev…leaves not much time!
00:30:38 Cynthia Hansen: Singapore has the individual learning accounts model which is seem as an aspirational one
00:30:51 Todd Brous: Is that 60/40 ratio of learning to working an outlier? That seems like it’s not the normal for the workforce.
00:32:12 Arthur Ransier: Opportunity@Work is a tremendous organization that serves as a talent marketplace and voice for smaller nonprofits which focus on training/developing workers in local communities. Here’s some of their research https://opportunityatwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Rise-with-the-STARs.pdf
00:32:13 Balaji Bondili: I see the crypto revolution. meme stock revolution, social media influencers – it feels like there is a notion of “get rich quick” skills are more popular in the new generation than skills that are monetized over the longer term.
00:32:21 DJ Ursal: Would love to connect via LinkedIn —https://www.linkedin.com/in/djursal/
00:32:43 Brandon Dwight: Albert de Symons Azis-Clauson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/albert-de-symons-azis-clauson-%F0%9F%A6%9A-03a97a9a/
00:32:52 Todd Brous: (@Balaji: I wanna get rich quick too!)
00:32:57 Brandon Dwight: Underpinned: https://www.underpinned.com/
00:33:21 The Wolf: Upskilling takes on many forms….what we see most often are 1) enabling people to work at the top 1/3rd of the skill range – most operate at the bottonm1/3rd and only occasionally take an “excursion to the top”, and 2) “giving the mundane tasks to the robots” and opening up the cognitive freedom to explore more complex challenges.
00:33:22 Balaji Bondili: (Todd: Just DAO It)
00:33:36 Todd Brous: Boom!!! DAO for the win!
00:35:25 Cynthia Hansen: Apologies that I have to drop off. Great conversation!
00:35:35 Gavin McClafferty: @Steve – look at Communo for example.
00:36:19 DJ Ursal: Need change in mindset as to how companies are thinking in terms of investment dollars and measure in terms of delivery evaluation model not just pure length of employment years.
00:36:40 Balaji Bondili: I don’t really think Freelancing marketplaces help market individuals. I they market individuals
00:36:54 Balaji Bondili: the contingent vendors do that way better.
00:36:56 Chris Link Duarte: I did a search 6 months ago for “human capital consultancy/DEI” and maybe 7 positions were hiring- now there are over 7K jobs in this arena with some having over 250 applicants. It makes me think about how we vet the language fluff used to define people’s talent and skill set
00:37:08 Brandon Dwight: Carrie Leonard: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carrieleonard/
00:37:22 ashley beaudoin: Yeah that’s tricky. Are there more recent numbers about the percentage of freelancers that are ON platforms? Has that improved any?
00:37:36 Gavin McClafferty: @Chris – that is mindblowing!
00:37:49 Brandon Dwight: Balaji Bondili: https://www.linkedin.com/in/balajibondili/
00:37:55 Albert Azis-Clauson: I don’t think platforms are the future. They tend to drive competition on price and serve a very small number of freelancers. The big investment dollars and interest is going into servicing individuals as small businesses generating a network
00:38:27 Chris Link Duarte: @ashley, it makes me wonder how many more freelancers joined platforms in the last 6 months that are not gig or tech/engineering/software type workers.
00:38:28 Arthur Ransier: @Balaji — is it possible that they “market” better, because they control the relationships with the vast majority of large businesses?
00:38:41 Todd Brous: @Albert: #landmine
00:38:48 Balaji Bondili: Yep. they generate demand – more than market.
00:39:01 Balaji Bondili: @Arthur
00:39:47 Chris Link Duarte: Platforms are the engine, not the whole car. Platforms power the ability to connect workers to meaningful work but it’s going to be the quality of the experience that the platforms create that keeps workers coming back and engaging
00:39:58 David Swift: Have private talent communities or direct sourcing models had any success/traction?
00:40:19 Balaji Bondili: @David – tell us more about that model?
00:41:15 Brandon Dwight: Ray Wolf: https://www.linkedin.com/in/raymondwolf/
00:41:36 James Dunn: Are we worried that this marginalizes relationships, alienates folks. What is the role of a mentor?
00:41:39 Chris Link Duarte: Well said
00:41:49 David Swift: Companies create their own talent pools of freelancers and when they have a gig, they go to them first before going to a staffing company.
00:41:58 Arthur Ransier: private talent communities and direct sourcing models gained traction when the large-scale managed services providers began to offer the services themselves
00:42:13 Cris Buningh: agree Dadid Swift
00:42:22 Balaji Bondili: Yes, PwC has probably done the best job with direct sourcing
00:42:29 Chris Link Duarte: Platforms need to operate at the connector to the upskilling and resources platforms but not house all the upskilling in addition to their fuctions
00:42:29 Cris Buningh: David that is
00:42:53 Balaji Bondili: Yes, GA sold for $400M – yes, there is a ton of money!
00:43:25 David Swift: Deloitte does it too. Most of the big professional services companies built them
00:44:06 Gavin McClafferty: My LinkedIn feed has been blowing up recently with a lot of people joining FAANG companies who have upskilled using side gigs and Coursera.
00:44:14 Balaji Bondili: Yes, we do, but we aren’t as good as them.
00:44:38 Brandon Dwight: Alan Korpady: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alankorpady/
00:45:13 Cris Buningh: in Europe i am not impressed by the Big 4 talent pools. zero engagement. spot sourcing.
00:45:29 David Swift: Would tend to agree Chris
00:45:36 David Swift: Cris
00:46:14 David Swift: Partners still staff their projects with the talent they know
00:46:36 Chris Link Duarte: Thank you for the plug Steve!
00:47:44 Cris Buningh: i think most platforms and talent pools have a ways to go in terms of candidate centricity, engagement and skills based intelligence, however that should be solvable and then thet have great potential
00:48:39 Carrie Leonard: The idea of ups killing being more needed for non-knowledge workers goes along with the point Prof Scott Galloway/NYU continues make about how college is just not affordable for most people. There need to be other ways to develop a workforce.
00:48:42 David Swift: If you had a budget, would you invest it in a talent community Cris?
00:49:16 Atharv Tendolkar: While academia demands more of formula learning approach from learners, how do we rethink about bridging the gap between industry and academia ?
00:49:30 Gavin McClafferty: I think that a college / university degree provides the fundamentals. Coursera / EdX allow people to then extend their skills when they hit the workplace.
00:49:32 Albert Azis-Clauson: What about the gamification of hardskills development, small incremental, affordable, and digestible… Duolingo for hard skills
00:49:44 ashley beaudoin: +1 Link!
00:51:14 Chris Link Duarte: Thank you Ashley
00:51:19 Chris Link Duarte: https://www.linkedin.com/in/linkdreams/
00:51:30 Cris Buningh: yes i believe in talent pools for specific types of skills/roles (specialist)
00:52:08 Brandon Dwight: Arthur Ransier: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ransierarthur/
00:52:20 Cris Buningh: i think public pools/platforms are more fit for the commodity skills
00:52:44 Todd Brous: UPS killers!
00:53:17 Arthur Ransier: A local community college in the DC-Baltimore (USA) area offers apprenticeships in partnership with local businesses in some really great fields like biomedical engineering, software development, technical support, and more: https://www.howardcc.edu/programs-courses/academics/apprenticeships/
00:54:23 David Swift: The US higher education market is dysfunctional! The cost of a college degree in Europe is a tiny fraction of that in the US.
00:55:12 Chris Link Duarte: @David absolutely and the value that the US BA provides does not offset the cost
00:55:38 Philip Rogiers: Disney is also an interesting case study on how they reskill workers in many different ways, in a large organization.
00:55:50 Arthur Ransier: There’s a flyer for our workforce development program to support transitioning Veterans
00:56:32 Tom Matthews: Hey Chris that would be great. I started a spreadsheet of open talent platforms around a year ago and have gradually been turning that into a directory with the aim of creating a searchable directory of platforms and freelance work enablers etc.
00:56:33 Chris Link Duarte: Nobody can afford to work for $12 an hour in the service industry and afford the cost of living. In rural communities, people are finding more ways to make money “under the table”
00:56:33 David Swift: The Economist did an article on US higher education a few years ago and concluded that it was a very poor investment
00:56:54 Carrie Leonard: Live + Chat = 2 meetings in one!
00:57:00 John Hurter: I’ve run across these models that are interesting too. https://credentialengine.org/. https://www.acteonline.org/professional-development/online-learning/
00:57:55 Todd Brous: https://www.harvardonline.harvard.edu/course/open-innovation
00:58:06 Brandon Dwight: Harvard Online: Open Innovation
00:59:13 Arthur Ransier: The St. Louis Fed has research that shows college, generally, doesn’t actually afford a wealth premium… meaning going to college hasn’t increased the wealth of individuals since like 1985. There was a small exception for white males
00:59:40 Todd Brous: Do organizations want to pay for on-the-job-training? For Freelancers???
00:59:53 The Wolf: we should borrow from the open talent ecosystem playbook when we look to close the skill gap…on the lower end googling is the answer and at the top end expensive private education….it is what gap closure method makes sense for the type/size of gap
00:59:54 Balaji Bondili: Cant.
00:59:59 Albert Azis-Clauson: can’t
01:00:01 Albert Azis-Clauson: legally
01:00:07 Arthur Ransier: @Todd — we’re going to do it for our employees (temporary workers), but you can’t provide “benefits” to independent contractors
01:00:11 David Swift: No, freelancers are expected to have the skills already
01:00:16 Chris Link Duarte: I think of what Karim Lakhani said a few weeks ago: “in the university, change in science only happens when there is a funeral (of the tenured).” Universities are really focused on maintaining the tradition
01:00:24 Albert Azis-Clauson: companies scared to invest in education for freelancers because then they look like employees from a tax perspective
01:00:26 Carrie Leonard: [How do we formally cache all the knowledge that flows through the chat?]
01:00:41 Arthur Ransier: Insert: my vision for staffing agencies in the “future of work” as those responsible for developing talent pipelines for freelance platforms
01:00:55 Chris Link Duarte: @Carrie click on the 3 dots to the right of the chat and you can save it
01:01:16 The Wolf: are we falling into a situation where the people working don’t have the time, and the people not working learn the new skill and then get employeed and the cycle repeats itself?
01:01:28 Todd Brous: @The Wolf: +1
01:01:51 John Hurter: Longer-term…. These guys in California have the next generation (younger students) thinking like you all are pointing to? https://www.worldofwork.net/the-world-of-work/
01:01:52 Carrie Leonard: @Chris I meant more like at the Open Assembly/CTW level 🙂
01:01:54 Arthur Ransier: If any platforms want to discuss what a partnership might look like (I don’t know right now), please get in touch… my firm is onboard with enabling open innovation, providing training to employees, and funneling talent to platforms long-term
01:02:29 Brandon Dwight: A recording of this call and copy of the chat will be on the CTW blog by the end of the day. https://transformationofwork.org/blog
01:02:55 The Wolf: voluntary and involuntary upskilling….what are y’all seeing?
01:03:16 Arthur Ransier: upskilling = retention
01:03:24 Chris Link Duarte: Mark your calendars Future of Work Advocates! First live CTW Advocacy Community Call is scheduled for Tuesday, February 15th at 12pm EST. Be looking for the email invite next week. If you would like more information, please reach out to me on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/linkdreams/
01:03:26 Albert Azis-Clauson: a lot more investment in soft skills but hardskills is more on the job and incremental
01:03:35 Brandon Dwight: Please share this great news with your network: https://transformationofwork.org/blog/future-of-work-pioneer-appointed-to-lead-the-center-for-the-transformation-of-work
01:03:53 Mark Hannant: BBC World News Asia Business Report 02/02/22
01:04:06 Steve Rader: There is definitely a relationship… we just have to figure out how to ride the wave where applicable and where to push when needed.
01:04:07 Balaji Bondili: love Steve’s facilitation!
01:04:08 ashley beaudoin: Thanks Mark!
01:04:17 Mafé Rabino: Upskilling is a personal initiative also. Funding or no funding.
01:04:19 Albert Azis-Clauson: I’ve gotta run! Thank you so much
01:04:25 Todd Brous: Thanks Steve!! This was awesome!
01:04:31 John Hurter: Thanks
01:04:31 ashley beaudoin: Great discussion!